#96 — The Nature of Consciousness
#96 — The Nature of Consciousness
September 10, 2017
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50m
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Episode Ranking: 7/100
TOPICS: Artificial Intelligence Meditation Neuroscience
Episode Description
Sam Harris engages with Thomas Metzinger to delve into the intriguing world of consciousness, discussing its scientific and experiential aspects. They explore a range of topics from the impact of WWII on intellectual history, to the ethics of conscious AI, and the role of Eastern philosophy in Western science. The conversation also touches on the concept of self as a hallucination and the limitations of secular humanism. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion.
Ideabrix Summary
In episode #96 of the 'Making Sense with Sam Harris' podcast, Sam engages in a deep and wide-ranging conversation with philosopher Thomas Metzinger. Metzinger, a professor with a background in the philosophy of mind and cognitive science, is also a long-term meditator, sharing many interests with Harris. The episode begins with Metzinger providing a German perspective on American politics, drawing historical parallels between the rise of Trump and Germany's past, emphasizing the importance of considering the aftermath of political events and their intergenerational impact.
As the discussion shifts toward consciousness, Metzinger argues against the idea of a 'hard problem' of consciousness, famously posed by David Chalmers. He believes that consciousness is a bundle of problems rather than a single mystery and is confident that progress in neuroscience will eventually lead to a full understanding of the neural correlates of consciousness. Metzinger predicts that by 2050 we will have isolated these correlates in humans, but he also acknowledges the potential difficulty in recognizing forms of consciousness that may be radically different from our own, such as those that might emerge in artificial intelligence.
The conversation then explores the concept of the self, with Metzinger asserting that the robust sense of selfhood is a misrepresentation, as no empirical evidence supports the existence of an immortal soul or self within the brain. Despite this, he acknowledges the challenge in trying to believe that there is no self due to the strong and persistent intuition of its existence. Harris, on the other hand, shares his experiences with meditation and psychedelics, which have led him to the experiential understanding that the self is, indeed, an illusion.
The episode also touches on the ethics of creating conscious AI, with Metzinger cautioning against the risk of inadvertently causing suffering by bringing conscious machines into existence. He emphasizes the importance of developing a theory of consciousness to guide us in the ethical creation and treatment of such machines.
As the discussion shifts toward consciousness, Metzinger argues against the idea of a 'hard problem' of consciousness, famously posed by David Chalmers. He believes that consciousness is a bundle of problems rather than a single mystery and is confident that progress in neuroscience will eventually lead to a full understanding of the neural correlates of consciousness. Metzinger predicts that by 2050 we will have isolated these correlates in humans, but he also acknowledges the potential difficulty in recognizing forms of consciousness that may be radically different from our own, such as those that might emerge in artificial intelligence.
The conversation then explores the concept of the self, with Metzinger asserting that the robust sense of selfhood is a misrepresentation, as no empirical evidence supports the existence of an immortal soul or self within the brain. Despite this, he acknowledges the challenge in trying to believe that there is no self due to the strong and persistent intuition of its existence. Harris, on the other hand, shares his experiences with meditation and psychedelics, which have led him to the experiential understanding that the self is, indeed, an illusion.
The episode also touches on the ethics of creating conscious AI, with Metzinger cautioning against the risk of inadvertently causing suffering by bringing conscious machines into existence. He emphasizes the importance of developing a theory of consciousness to guide us in the ethical creation and treatment of such machines.
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