#466 – Jeffrey Wasserstrom: China, Xi Jinping, Trade War, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Mao

In this episode of the 'Lex Fridman Podcast,' Lex engages in a conversation with Jeffrey Wasserstrom, a historian specializing in modern China. They explore a wide array of topics concerning China's past and present, including the leadership styles of Mao Zedong and Xi Jinping, China's international relations, and the implications of the trade war with the United States. Wasserstrom provides a nuanced comparison between Mao and Xi, highlighting their shared penchant for personality cults, while noting their differences in approach to chaos and order. Mao reveled in disorder and the upending of traditional hierarchies, whereas Xi emphasizes stability and predictability. Wasserstrom also discusses the influence of Confucianism on Xi's governance, which contrasts sharply with Mao's disdain for Confucian traditions.

The conversation shifts to the historical context of China's development, the ideas of Confucius, and the impact of education and meritocracy in Chinese society. Wasserstrom elaborates on the complexities of the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) rise to power, the Sino-Soviet split, and Mao's subsequent policies, including the disastrous Great Leap Forward. He reflects on the CCP's narrative surrounding China's 'century of humiliation' and the party's ongoing efforts to restore national pride and power.

Lex and Wasserstrom delve into the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, the symbolism of the Tank Man, and the nature of censorship and propaganda within China. They discuss the role of youth protests in shaping political discourse and the transformative power of seemingly futile movements. The episode also touches on the dynamics of Taiwan and Hong Kong, with Wasserstrom expressing hope for more open and diverse expressions of Chineseness beyond the CCP's narrow vision. The discussion concludes with Wasserstrom's insights into the 2019 Hong Kong protests, the implications for Taiwan, and the potential for future conflict or de-escalation in the region.